In light of the beginning of the new universe in 2024, which promises to restart everything previously established, this forum has been opened in order to democratically define how the DC Universe should be covered. It should be noted that a consensus will not be reached immediately, but rather the discussion may extend for several months to allow the participation of more users, as well as more statements from James Gunn or other official sources arrive, that clarify and help determine what situation is the most reasonable.
This space is made up of two parts, discussion and voting:
- The discussion will be focused on whether the DCU should be covered in this wiki, or whether a separation and creation of a new wiki is more reasonable. Likewise, there should be discussion about how the DCU should be covered here if you prefer to cover it on this wiki. Users are also welcome to start discussion on any other DCEU-DCU aspect that has not been mentioned.
- Once topics are proposed in the discussion and have been considerably debated, a vote can be started for each of the topics, in which users can vote to support or object each one, as you think is the best option, accompanied by the respective signature.
All users are welcome to participate and vote, as long as they follow these requirements:
- Have at least 100 editions on the wiki.
- Having signed the comments and votes cast, any comment that is not signed will be removed.
- Once a vote has been cast, it cannot be changed, unless the user has participated at some point in the discussion section.
- Do not use rumors and speculation from other sites, or opinions of people on the Internet as arguments to defend an idea.
When a consensus is achieved, an additional month will be given to comment or vote before declaring the topic closed, giving the corresponding notice.
If you have any questions about the modality or use of this space, feel free to leave them. We invite all editors to participate and define the future of the wiki's policies.
Discussion[]
DCEU-DCU Wiki separation[]
Given the imminent start of the DC Universe, and the statements given by James Gunn during these last months, stating that nothing prior to Creature Commandos is canon, along with notes like the one stating that any Justice League actors will reprise their roles, it is safe to say that nothing prior to Creature Commandos is DCU, so in this circumstance I see it necessary to discuss whether the DCU should be covered in its own wiki.
Prior to the release of The Flash, James Gunn stated that the 4 remaining DCEU projects were going to lead to the DCU, with the Muschiettis even saying that The Flash "restarts everything but forgets nothing", something that totally contradicts itself if we take into account that Jason Momoa confirmed that he will not continue playing Aquaman, so it is assumed that James Gunn only made misleading and ambiguous comments as a strategy to get a certain sector of people to go see the 2023 movies.
On the other hand, we have the case of Peacemaker, which renews a season within the DCU, and when a fan asked him how the continuity changes would be explained, he responded that we would see it in the show, so it could be argued that we can wait until the premiere of the second season of Peacemaker to determine what to do, however, even if there is a canonical explanation, I do not see it as very profitable to cover the DCU here since we will have to go through strong structural changes to reflect the new universe, which will establish its own storyline, unrelated to the previous one.
Another problem that we don't face if we decide to cover the DCU here, is that we will have to rename ourselves to DC Universe Wiki and change our url to dcuniverse to reflect the new universe, which can hurt the search engine optimization of the wiki, making it difficult to return to position ourselves in the first results of Google.
The creation of a new wiki is the perfect opportunity to start a new project from scratch, allowing us to have a more organized and better formatted wiki than the current one, since one of the problems that this wiki had for years was the inconsistency in the structuring of some articles.--Gonzalo .H (Talk) 18:20, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
- We really jumped the gun merging the James Gunn DC Universe Wiki. I say this wiki should focus on the DC movies from 2013 to 2023. As for Peacemaker, I guess we'd cover Season 1 while the other wiki gets Season 2. SeanWheeler (talk) 18:40, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
- Jason Momoa was only pessimistic about his future as Aquaman, he didn't "confirm" that he has finished in the role. Willmorrish (talk) 13:40, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
Yes, we should separate the DC Universe into a new fandom site and keep this one of the DCEU (2013-2023). Creature Commandos and so on and so forth can be migrated to the new wiki IMO. KingArti (talk) 19:23, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
- I vote to separate the DCEU from the DCU and make a Wiki specifically dedicated to the DCU. AntIsBack (talk) 13:47, 04 December 2023 (UTC)
- I am decided as of now whether it makes sense to start a whole DCU wiki from scratch. One thought I have is that if we do start from scratch, it would also hurt the search engine optimization of the new wiki as the older, more developed wiki would most likely be more prominent than the newer, less developed wiki. Gunn has also commented that some plot threads, elements, and characters from his works (The Suicide Squad, Peacemaker) and Blue Beetle will continue into the new cinematic universe. I think it is valuable that we have that information with the new universe as this isn't exactly a hard reboot from scratch (like from the Raimi Spider-Man trilogy to Webb's TASM duology to Watts' MCU Spider-Man movies). Considering the messy and non-clear-cut nature of the reboot, I am hesitant as of now to advocate for an entirely new wiki. Bryschec (talk) 19:27, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
- Valid point on the SEO. I can talk to Fandom's SEO team also about the imapct on this.
- x TimeShade (talk) 03:34, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- I can understand the separation of the two wikis. As an observation, you have the Wookieepedia, and then you have several wikis that are part of the Star Wars universe but they have their own wikis. CarverSindile (talk) 01:01, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- Edit: Also, what happens if someone between now and when the decision is made someone creates a wiki for the DCU. CarverSindile (talk) 01:03, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- I'm actually glad we are having this discussion because this will need to be addressed whether or not we consider anything canon. I for one am all for creating a new wiki to help separate the old and the new because chances are Gunn-Safran's DC Universe will include some of the characters and paraphernalia from this wiki but with new information that isn’t relevant to the DC Extended Universe. I am also aware that the DC Universe will include some of the old cast from the DC Extended Universe, according to James Gunn, not sure how though seeing as how it is a new universe and franchise. "Oh, but anything is possible in a multiverse." (Get it.) I'm sure we'd have to address a few things from this wiki to the new wiki, but that shouldn’t be a problem if we’re all on board. -- Nomad16 (talk) 7:03 PM, November 26, 2023 (UTC)
- Many wikis cover alternate universes/reboots into an existing wiki, I say the proximity of the DC Universe and the DCEU doesn't need for it to be separated, accounting for the SEO as well. But I understand if a consensus is reached on creating a new one. --Metropolisknight (talk) 03:00, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- Also if we create a new wiki can I request keeping the sentence case style of this wiki? It looks nicer. --Metropolisknight (talk) 03:07, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- I absolutely think we should separate the wikis for a couple reasons. Firstly, to separate the franchises and their fanbases. There's a lot of animosity and disagreement between the people who are here for the DCEU and people who are here for the DCU. By separating the wikis and giving the DCU wiki to those who are actually excited for those projects as opposed to those who are dreading the end of the DCEU, I think that'd put a good divide between those two fanbases and cause less in-fighting. Kinda like how if the Teen Titans Wiki also had Teen Titans GO! info, there'd be tons of in-fighting there.
Secondly, the fact that this is mostly a new franchise. Gunn's gone back and forth on what is and isn't canon, but he's maintained that the upcoming Chapter One slate is. We can always just start with the Chapter One slate's material, and if it turns out there's more from the DCEU that's canon, we can figure out what to do from there. -- MattTheNerd42 (talk) 18:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
As the discussion mod of this wiki, I firmly believe that the DCU is a completely separate universe, there's too many objections and too many complications to Gunn's comments, he said when he took office that the DCEU would be soft "rebooted" with The Flash that released in 2023, and now here we are in December 2023, with more sources, news and that, there's literally nothing to indicate that the DCU will be a sequel to the DCEU. My stance on this that I will be supporting the separation, However should a discussion moderation be required for the new wiki, I will not be participating due to my stance on the DCU, as I have no confidence in the direction of that universe. User:Darkmaster345 (talk), 14:45 GMT, 24, December 2023.
Dropping in! I'll make this short and sweet, I'm also for separating into a new wiki. Frankly I was shocked when users started adding content from the new universe. Thought that was jumping the gunn a bit..no pun intended! User:Bkshadows (talk) 9:29, 27, December 2023.
- Spelling "gun" with two n's makes the pun obviously intended. SeanWheeler (talk) 18:50, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
- Touche! ;) User:Bkshadows (talk) 16:25, 27, December 2023.
I am very much in support of making a new wiki. I think it makes logical sense to keep the two universes separate given we are starting on a clean slate with the new DC Universe. Mister Explicit • Message Wall • Contribs • Discord - 03:27, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
Owing to the D.C.U. carrying over certain elements from the D.C.E.U. while also replacing others, creating a separate fandom might be cause for confusion. If one detailed the new franchise in this fandom, one would be able to recognize the continuity and discontinuity between those elements. In particular, with the first season of Peacemaker being set in the D.C.E.U. while the rest of the show's seasons starting with season 2 onward will be set in the D.C.U. and addressing the new changes, retaining the one fandom makes sense. Despite the benefits that a new fandom could potentially bring, when taking the continuity of the elements that Gunn introduced into consideration, creating a new fandom will likely cause some head-scratching. Unlike some of the other franchises mentioned above, in which things were totally revamped and then addressed through the multiverse concepts, in which they each have their own fandoms, keeping just this one feels like a necessity. If you think about it, with The Flash totally resetting the D.C.E.U. timeline into the D.C.U., it's like how X-Men: Days of Future Past and, by extent, X-Men: Days of Future Past - The Rogue Cut reset the X-Men film series' timeline and took it into a new direction while not forgetting its past, and it doesn't even have a new fandom, just the one. It's only logical. --M.K.M.
- While it was originally intended for The Flash to transition from the DCEU to the DCU, I highly doubt it's the case anymore. The Post-Flashpoint timeline has George Clooney as Bruce Wayne, who is not going to reprise his role in Brave and the Bold. Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom came after The Flash and it was the true conclusion to the DCEU. The only cast to reprise their roles are from The Suicide Squad. It really doesn't seem likely that Ezra Miller and Amber Heard will ever return. Also, Days of Future Past didn't create a whole new franchise. It was just a new timeline in the X-Men series. And the upcoming third Deadpool movie is going to end up on the MCU Wiki instead of the X-Men movies wiki. And there's the DC Database if you want the DCEU and DCU on the same wiki. SeanWheeler (talk) 07:22, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- They only ever cast George Clooney as Bruce Wayne due to Gunn and Safran having not yet cast their Batman actor. Despite the difference in release dates, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom is chronologically set before The Flash. It's true that Miller and Heard will not return, but those changes are for the better. I'm aware that that franchise wasn't replaced with a new one; the circumstances are only similar. It's true that those from The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker are the only ones returning, but since the second season of the latter is addressing the changes, creating a new fandom comes off as wholly gratuitous. -- M.K.M.' 03:01 pm, 10 June 2024.
- But if Ezra Miller isn't returning, the DC Universe will need a new Flash, unless DC forbids the new movies from showing Barry Allen. Since he's the time traveller who changed the universe, he should remain unchanged. So if the Flash who appears in the DC Universe isn't Ezra Miller, then he's not the DCEU Flash. If the DCU Flash isn't the DCEU Flash, then there's no justification in considering the DCU and DCEU the same franchise. Characters from The Suicide Squad may reprise their roles, but that would be like how J. Jonah Jameson was played by J.K. Simmons in the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man trilogy the MCU and the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon. Those universes aren't even connected. And Peacemaker switching from the DCEU and DCU would be like how the Avengers Assemble cartoon switched from the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon universe to the Marvel's Spider-Man universe between Seasons 4 and 5. Whatever references to Season 1 in Season 2 could be explained by the fulcrum points. Also setting a movie before the timeline change and releasing it after the timeline change would be very confusing. They even cut Batman from the film to make it even more ambiguous to whether it was pre-Flashpoint or post-Flashpoint. SeanWheeler (talk) 03:22, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Voting[]
DCEU-DCU Wiki separation[]
Support[]
Support --Gonzalo .H (Talk) 01:37, 19 December 2023 (UTC)- Support -- Greater Good (talk) 20:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- Support -- Jstewart2007 (talk) 18:41, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
Support -- SeanWheeler (talk) 06:27, 24 December 2023 (UTC)- Support -- Darkmaster345(talk) 14:45, 24, December 2023. (GMT)
- Support -- Nomad16 (talk) 14:53, December 24, 2023 (UTC)
- Support -- TheRadion (talk) 17:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
- Support -- LUISDANGERVERSEPROMAX (talk) 11:15, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
- Support -- Bkshadows (talk) 9:29, 27, December 2023
- Support -- KingArti (talk) 2:21, 29 December, 2023 (UTC)
- Support -- Kiwichris (talk) 12:37, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
- Support -- Metropolisknight (talk) 09:10, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support -- Ranveer2 (talk) 15:23, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support -- Mister Explicit (talk) 03:30, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support -- AntIsBack (talk) 17:06, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support -- Parke1117 (talk) 13:33, 20 March 2024 (CDT)
- Support -- Hobbiton777 (talk)
- Support -- Owl Editor (talk) 12:00, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
Objection[]
- Objection -- M.K.M.007 (talk) 15:37, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
- Objection -- Conner Kennt69 (talk) 11:19, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
