INDEPENDENCE, Ohio — There were no participation trophies when Kevin Love was growing up. There was no mercy rule, either. So when his father, Stan, would address their youth league basketball teams in the Pacific Northwest, there was never a thought of going easy on opponents despite always having the superior talent.
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“My dad was like, ‘We’re going to blow this team out by 50.’ That’s just who he was,” Kevin Love laughs now. “‘We’re going to kick this team’s ass.’ And we were 9 years old playing on 8-foot rims. He didn’t give a shit.”
Love’s views have changed drastically on a number of issues since childhood, but that competitiveness has never faded. It’s what made his time in Minnesota so challenging and why his foot injury this season was so frustrating. But his views on the media have changed over the years, as well as some self-realizations about who he is and where he is going.
As The Athletic Cleveland celebrates its second anniversary this week, Love sat down for a Q&A recently to discuss the relationship between players and the media (and the book that helps define his views on the topic), the state of the Cavaliers and the future of Zion Williamson.
How would you describe the relationship today between players and media?
It’s a funny climate. Have you read the book “The Four Agreements”? It says to “Be impeccable with your word.” I think both sides can be held accountable for that. Both sides can keep each other in check, while (Cavs media relations staff) Tad (Carper) and B.J. (Evans) and Jeff (Schaefer) can play intermediary in that regard.
The other one is “Don’t take anything personal.” In today’s world, because there are 24-hour news cycles and everything else going on, stories don’t have that much time to really live. I think there are narratives like the Lakers, the AD thing, Kevin Durant and what is he going to do this summer, Kyrie and what are they going to do even though they have teams that are going to compete for a championship. There’s stuff like that that’s always going to be there. But I don’t think you can take anything personal — on both sides. Flip Saunders taught me everyone has a part to play. Everyone gets to write a verse.
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The third agreement is “Never make assumptions.” Even with KD (and his recent feud with a reporter from The Athletic), I think with anybody calling somebody out, you just have to make sure you’ve done your checks and you make sure that if you’re going to do that, yes, you’re going to hold that person accountable. Just make sure you’re right. I think on both sides that’s the case. You also have to consider on your guys’ side of it. You guys have deadlines, you have to have stories, there has to be some weight to it and you want to generate readers and have a good story because that’s your livelihood, that’s what you work for. Just like we work for everything between the lines.
And at the very end, just do your very best. That’s the fourth agreement. Just do your best in every sense of it. So the relationship with the media is funny. I have come from a point where I didn’t have a good relationship, as you know, and just in humanizing myself and humbling myself and realizing that everybody does have a part to play. It’s just like the referees. People saying we can’t talk to them, we can’t have a relationship. I don’t like some of the calls they make as much as anybody else. And are there some guys you dislike? You’re never going to like everyone in the workplace. Are there some guys that walk in and do media that I don’t like? Of course. But it’s the same thing with you covering some guys.
But I will say this: There are good guys and bad guys in everything. And so much of the time commentary is now the content. But also the same goes for social media. Even us, we have to generate eyes and make this persona and trend or drive our personalities in some direction but it has to be constant or you’re going to lose it.
James Jones told me once when he was here that we need each other. Even though players don’t want to admit it, the media obviously needs the players and the players would just go around telling each other how wonderful they are without the media.
But guess what? People love this shit. You remember how bad we were for so many regular seasons and then in the playoffs we just (claps) did our thing. People love the soap opera. They love that stuff. But that’s also the reason we have a how-many-billion-dollar TV deal? You have to consider that. So much of that is lost. And not to get too deep, but go back to the beginning of civilization. Go to the Parthenon. It’s the fucking theater. People have been going to this shit forever. And there is a lot of comedic relief in it. You have to be able to laugh at it because you’ll fucking lose your mind if not.
So where did you learn that? Was that part of the self-realization you’ve gone through? I told you before I noticed a huge change in you after the championship in terms of dealing with the media. Did winning lift some sort of burden? Because you did hate the media. You wanted nothing to do with anyone when you got here.
I think I took it personal. Of course, you’re going to shoulder a lot of the blame. I had come from a situation where we basically had a revolving door of players and coaches. We never really built anything, and a lot of that rested on me. I was upset at a lot of people for not only our team’s shortcomings but my shortcomings. I had put them off to the side. So when I got here and I ended up being a guy that was first or second in line, or third in line because Bron would get some of that as well, I’d take it personally. And I knew at times I wasn’t getting the best out of my talent and that worked both ways. That was part of letting Bron and Kyrie shine, but I was also delegated at times to being a spot-up shooter.
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But I think winning a championship and winning solves everything. I realized that sacrificing for the better of the team and us winning at a very high level that everything else was going to come if I just settled into my role and my position on this team. I knew my talent, I knew how good I was and individual accolades I had to put to the side. But this right now, me feeling like this, would’ve never happened had I not gone through that. So I’m thankful for that. I think I’m a better teammate, a better person and player because of that. I also think now after last year, which was a very tough year away from basketball, that has helped me just every day admitting what I go through and who I am.
What can we as the media do better? Where are we falling short?
Transparency is key. Any basis of any relationship is communication. I’m 30 years old, what am I talking about? I’m not married. But there are times in the past with my parents and nurturing that relationship and friends, nurturing previous girlfriends, if you let things linger, it’s tough not having that communication.
Without calling anybody out and making them feel like shit or feel like a fool, just having that communication is key. Because I do feel like liberties are taken a lot of the time. I just think there has to be a way for all of us to check each other, some checks and balances. There is some of that with agents. Some of that is good. Some of that is healthy. But I don’t know where we go from here because we have a president that says the media is not it and it’s fake news.
Do you believe that?
I believe at that level are people biased. If you turn on CNN as opposed to BBC News as opposed to Fox News, yeah. They’re left-wing, right-wing depending on what you watch. But there are exceptions to the rule and there are people that really do a good job, and I think that’s the majority. Our country’s favorite pastime is tearing people down. It’s like an eye for an eye makes the world go blind. If you’re throwing stones and throwing shit at me, I’m gonna throw it right back at you instead of being like, “Ok, why is this happening?” I don’t know.
Kyrie Irving said recently that the media can divide a locker room. Do you agree with that?
I’ll say this: This is something that I learned from Bron. It was a quick instance in the locker room. Something had come out and I hadn’t said it and hadn’t done anything or my words got taken out of context. I confronted him and said, “Just so you know …” He said, “They aren’t dividing us. I know. I know.” He’s 16 years in, this was like two to three years ago, that’s when I realized that so long as there is that trust and transparency, it shouldn’t divide a locker room. Because you can’t have so much noise. There’s only so many things you can think about in order to play your game. I think having a young locker room, even guys that are five years or less, having gone through it and being the Boston Celtics, being a team like that and Kyrie trying to be a main leader, that’s a tough thing to juggle. But that’s always been part of professional sports. It’s part of it. It’s just the way it is.
But it took you a while to accept that.
One hundred percent. But even in how I played, I had bad habits when I got here. I didn’t have checks and balances. I didn’t have so many vets. Even when I had somebody (in Minnesota) like a Luke Ridnour or Al Jefferson or even a Brian Cardinal who would sit next to me just in my ear, those guys were out. As soon as I got close, they were out. So I didn’t have that. I was relying on playing heavy minutes, in a lot of cases being selfish. But I also learned a lot of good things, too. Just the way it is.
Are you still happy with your decision to re-sign here?
Yeah. This had just been really tough because I’ve never missed so much time consecutively. So finding what it is that is going to drive this team the last few weeks, it’s what we want to get out of the season, how guys want to continue to get better. There have been some bright spots in terms of younger guys getting better. But it’s been tough, especially stepping into a leadership role and then you’re not out there for three months. That was really tough. Just finding a way to keep motivated and get whatever we can, squeeze whatever drops we can out of the season.
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When we talked in September, I asked if this team can get back to being a contender while you’re still in your prime. You said you didn’t know, that it was still to be determined. Obviously, this season has gone a different direction than you expected, so I’ll ask you again: Can this team get back to a championship level while you’re here? Because it seems like the plan has been set back from where you were in September.
That was a big setback only because I missed time. We weren’t able to take advantage and grow anything. Larry (Nance) missed time, Tristan (Thompson) missed time. With all of our bigs, we’re not bad. It’s just been tough. Speaking of that revolving door, we’ve had over 25 players this year. But what can you do when your two championship bigs are sidelined? It’s tough
Would you tell Zion to come back and play or sit out and protect yourself?
It’s tough. I still consider my college teammates family. We weren’t playing for anything except to win a national championship. It wasn’t about money, it wasn’t about none of that. So that camaraderie, plus I love Coach K and that staff is great. I know most of them. But with a guy like that, I think you’re going to see it more and more now that if kids are going to the NIT or you don’t have a chance to win the national championship or a kid goes down with the injury, you’re just going to shut it down.
You’re seeing it a lot more in these bowl games in football. So I think you’ll see that a lot more. If I were him, I’d probably say, especially after a scare like this, I’d heavily consider telling the NCAA to pay us or else shutting it down and doing what’s best for his family. That kid is really an exceptional talent and from everything I’ve heard, he’s a great kid. I think he’s going to have a lot of success in this league. I would lean toward not coming back.
When Kyrie hurt his toe at Duke, there was no thought or talk of shutting it down. He worked hard to come back and play in the tournament. That wasn’t that long ago. We have come really far, really fast in terms of how college sports are viewed and the NCAA is viewed. That was a really significant injury with Kyrie and this is comparatively a little knee thing with Zion.
Agree. And we have programs now (in basketball) that really reach or at least impact the kids on a good level. They should have the opportunity to come out right out of high school.
According to your contract, you’re here for the long term. So when you’re on the floor competing to win, how do you balance this? And you know I’m talking about tanking.
That’s what I mean about motivation. I want to get the best out of myself and I just want to be really good to my teammates. When we’re out here, we’re having fun. We’re getting the most out of it, but we’re also having fun. It’s a funny position to be in because there are such exceptional talents in this draft. There are four to five guys who are really, really good. It’s a funny position to be in. I’ve worked my ass off. I’ve kept myself in shape. Just finding that motivation to keep pursuing and feeling great because I do feel really good. And when they tell me I’m playing, I’m playing.
So when you’re up 10 against Phoenix in the fourth quarter, do you look up and think, “That’s going to hurt our chances to get Zion”?
(Laughs) No, I want to win. When I’m out there, I want to make a positive difference. I mean, what would you do?
What would I do?
Yeah.
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I’d sit you and Tristan. I’d sit you. Because every once in a while there is an exceptional talent out there that makes it worth it. It’s the short-term pain for the long-term gain.
I don’t disagree with the fact that there are guys that — this is the first time I’ve watched college basketball in like six years.
Because of what we’re talking about?
Yeah, and it’s part of the media coverage, too, in a good way. They get to show these guys and there’s so much coming at you that you almost feel like you get to see them up close. You get to see it in there.
But there’s a draft every year. You’re going to have a rookie on your team almost every year. So do you feel more invested this year because of where you’re going to be picking?
Oh, sure. I knew that coming in we were going to have to grow something anyway. So in a good way, it’s almost like missing that time, obviously it fucking sucks. But maybe there’s a silver lining. And also on top of that, I feel fresh. My body didn’t take that continual (pounding). I mean I didn’t play after that first round my first year, but still, three straight finals is a lot on your legs and on your body. Anybody can say that. Bron is another exception to the rule. This is the first year he had anything. It’s a lot. I guess the silver lining could be building something without that wear and tear, and Tristan maybe the same thing.
Was your timeline delayed or overly cautious to ensure losing? If this was last year and you were trying to win a championship, would it have been the same timeline?
I probably would have tested it a bit earlier but I was going to make sure my foot was OK. Definitely, that played a part in it. If we needed these games to win a championship, I would’ve potentially tried to get back maybe a couple weeks earlier. But I was really going to take my time with it.
So is this team tanking?
No. I was looking at Phoenix. Champ (James Jones, Phoenix’s interim GM) was telling me the same thing, “You’ll feel it when you’re out there. We’re trying to win. We’re just too young to figure it out.” So long as I’m out there, I just can’t go there in my mind. It goes back to the circle when I was young. I never want to wish away my time in the NBA because I know like anything in life, it’s fast fleeting.
(Photo of Kevin Love: David Liam Kyle / Getty Images)