Real Salt Lake goalkeeper David Ochoa doesn’t mind being the villain. In fact, he relishes the role, but not for the spotlight or the headlines. The 20-year-old Ochoa is a throwback to the days when goalkeepers were performers. The bigger the personality, the better. Think Mexico’s Jorge Campos, Colombia’s René Higuita or France World Cup winner Fabien Barthez — nonconformists whose flair and attitude created an aura that complimented their technique.
Advertisement
Ochoa is a showman and a risk-taker. He stands out because, for the most part, goalkeeping etiquette has become much more conservative and risk averse in recent years. The sport in general has stamped down on gamesmanship, otherwise known as “s**thousery.” There are outliers, like Manchester City’s tattoo-laced Brazilian shot stopper Ederson. But the latest rebel to revitalize the position is Argentina international and Aston Villa star Emiliano ‘Dibu’ Martínez, whose antics have not gone unnoticed by Ochoa.
Ahead of Real Salt Lake’s Western Conference final against the Portland Timbers, Ochoa was candid about RSL’s chances to advance to MLS Cup, his prospects with Mexico’s national team after switching from representing the U.S. at the youth level and the coach and mentor who still inspires him today. He also didn’t hold back when he was reminded of Minnesota United head coach Adrian Heath’s comments about him in April.
Questions and answers have been lightly edited for length and clarity.
It’s pretty obvious that you have a chip on your shoulder, professionally. It seems like there’s always an origin for that type of thing — what’s yours? Where does that mentality come from in your case?
I think it goes back to growing up as a kid, I always played with guys older than me. My dad had me on the team that was two years ahead of my age. So I was always playing with guys older than me. When I was getting started I was always losing, obviously, because they’re bigger kids, taller and stronger. I didn’t like losing. I hated losing. I hated when people scored goals on me. It got to that point where I hit the age where I started growing a little bit and then building a character. I started standing up to the guys who were older than me and starting to compete, really, and then beating them. Age isn’t a factor for me anymore, it’s all about mentality. If you want it more than the other person, you’re going to beat them, no matter what. And I’m gonna talk my smack as well. I grew up idolizing people like (Cristiano) Ronaldo and people like Kobe Bryant, being from the LA area. Those are two competitors, guys who talk smack and compete and like to win.
Advertisement
So much of what you’re describing — the smack-talk, all of that, we’ll just lump it in with “s**thousery,” as people have taken to calling it. That sort of thing seems to be embraced in Europe, and particularly in Mexico and Central and South America. People in this country seem to view it as bad sportsmanship. What do you make of that? Should players, and even fans, here get a bit more used to that?
I’ll be straight up about this situation. I think soccer is very slept on in (the United States.) The biggest sport in this country is obviously American football. So people really sleep on football; Americans are more about good sportsmanship and kind of soft, as you’d say. People have to realize that soccer is the biggest sport in the world. Football is the most played sport in the world. It’s huge in South America and South American (players) are known for having that type of character. I grew up watching Mexican league soccer and everyone in that league has a character to them. Back in the day, when VAR wasn’t a thing, the way they would be going into tackles, the “dark arts” that they would use, it was just a lot more. I grew up watching them, so I know all of the stuff that there is, but obviously you have to tone it down a bit because of VAR and stuff. Again, soccer is the biggest sport in the world, and Americans have to expand their view a little bit and start watching more South American and European soccer.
I mean, let’s follow up on that — do you think the footballing culture in the United States can be boring sometimes?
It definitely can. When I was in California, there are obviously many different cultures and backgrounds there, and particularly a lot of Latinos. And growing up there were always those types of characters and competitiveness there. It definitely can be soft, especially when the “dark arts” aren’t allowed. That’s what makes games fun and a little entertaining; that’s how you get both teams to really compete and talk smack, all of that. And that’s when soccer is the most fun, when both teams are competing, talking smack and when the best team wins. It can definitely be a little boring here sometimes. I’m just trying to put a little fun in it.
Does Pablo Mastroeni, your head coach, encourage that side of you that wants to employ those “dark arts?”
(Laughs.) That’s a tough question. Pablo is very passionate, obviously, and he played the game. He has an Argentine background, and soccer there is huge. He has that passion for the game and he really understands me. I don’t want to say he encourages it but he understands me and lets me do my thing. He’s put that trust in me and he lets me do what I do. So I’m definitely grateful for him.
Given your style of play, who would you say you’ve modeled your game on over the years? You’ve talked in the past about loving the sort of skinny, acrobatic, showman-types of keepers. Who did you look to growing up?
I was born here and got to see American goalkeepers, but at the same time I got to learn a bit from the Mexican keepers, as well. Growing up, Guillermo Ochoa was a big one, Tim Howard was a big one as well, honestly. Gigi Buffon, Iker Casillas; the way I try to go about it is to mix both styles. I like to try and be that flashy, South American goalkeeper but still be that technical, clean, more modern European goalkeeper.
One guy, though, that I like to watch, who is really entertaining and does the dark arts stuff really well, is Nahuel Guzman at Tigres. This man is crazy. I love him. I love it. I remember when Tigres came up here for Campeones Cup or something. We got to play them here at Rio Tinto and this man was doing pull-ups on the crossbars, he was crazy. Something in me just really loves that and understands it.
Advertisement
He’s a bit before your time but do you think you model your game after Jorge Campos at all? Will we see you in any highlighter pink and yellow kits anytime soon?
(Laughs) My dad loved him. He’s a little bit before my time. I was more with the Ochoas. But Campos is such a legend in Mexico that Mexican keepers kind of still absorb his traits. So I think his legacy will never die. I bet I still have a bit of Campos in me, that craziness, that wildness. He’s a legend.
Goalkeepers in general are just more manufactured these days, aren’t they? They’re polished; and then recently in Copa America you see Dibu Martínez, for Argentina. He was saving penalty kicks. He was pelvic thrusting. He was talking trash to every penalty taker. People called it unsportsmanlike yet he’s one of the top keepers in the world now.
Man, I really hopped on the Emi Martínez ship right after that tournament. He proved himself, that he’s legit. It’s funny that you bring that up. When Messi wins the Ballon d’Or because of his showcasing in that tournament, I was pretty shocked Martínez didn’t get the best goalkeeper award, because if it wasn’t for him they wouldn’t have won that tournament. He’s doing what I’m trying to do — mix both aspects, still be that perfect, polished goalkeeper technically, but at the same time bring in some of that craziness from South America, just have fun with it. You have to have fun with what you do and it makes you play better if you do, honestly. He is a world-class keeper.
You’ve mentioned Guillermo Ochoa a couple of times; he raised some eyebrows recently with his comments about the U.S., how the U.S. wants to model itself after Mexico and views them as the ideal, how they still aren’t close in quality, all of that. Christan Pulisic had the T-shirt message in response. U.S. head coach Gregg Berhalter mentioned them just the other day, and it wasn’t the first time.
I think (Ochoa) got his karma after those comments. I think American soccer has progressed a lot and as we say in the last three games (where the U.S. won all three), they’re better. Maybe not better, in my opinion, but they can compete. The Mexican federation is seeing that now. I still do think that Mexico just has more of a history and if he would’ve said that comment maybe two years ago, it would’ve been a bit more true. I do think the U.S. is catching up and I think he got his karma for that comment.
What was your relationship like with Berhalter? It seems obviously impossible that you weren’t hurt by what happened in Sandy against Costa Rica, when you were the only player in that camp not to make it onto the field. How do you feel about the USMNT program right now, and Gregg in particular — are these things that motivate you?
My relationship with Gregg was whatever. I had more of a relationship with his goalkeeper coach (Aron Hyde) than with him, which is how it is in general. But he’s a good guy. I was disappointed not to get on the field. I found it a little disrespectful, especially given the fact that it was on my home field. American soccer as a whole is progressing. As we saw recently they made the top 10 rankings. So they’re coming along.
I spoke with Tata Martino recently and asked him about the goalkeeping situation in Mexico, in particular what he thinks about you, and more specifically your personality, your gamesmanship. His answer was “es muy, muy bueno.” He said you’d have been in this upcoming camp but obviously RSL has stayed alive in the MLS Cup playoffs. Where do you see yourself within the program — and what are your personal ambitions?
Tata is great. He played a big part in my switch. He was constantly calling me. Tata and his goalkeeper coach both have a lot of faith in me. They think I can be a great goalkeeper someday, going to Europe and stuff. A little detail — his goalkeeper coach (Gustavo Piñero) actually coached all the big Argentinian goalkeepers. He was part of Argentina’s youth teams, so he’s coached the Emil Martínezs, the (Agustín) Marchesíns, (Gerónimo Rulli), all the guys who are doing big things in Europe. He thinks I can follow in their footsteps. I have all the trust in them. Where do I see myself? I think I can compete with (Mexico’s) goalkeepers. I’m a very competitive person and I constantly want to learn. I think I’m right there. My ambitions are to win that starting spot and hopefully put that jersey on and represent my blood, my parents. It’s always been a dream of mine.
As far as club soccer? I wouldn’t mind going to Mexico. I watched those games when I was a kid, I was a big fan of Chivas. My dad, my grandpa and everyone in my family is a big Chivas fan. My goal right now is going to Europe, but further down the line, I wouldn’t mind going to Mexico and playing a couple of years there.
Tata mentioned you were in his plans for this coming camp…
Yeah. I was in the plans for a good month. A month ago he told me, “Yeah, you might be coming.” But obviously club soccer and what I’m doing right now with my club is really, really important and what I’m doing with RSL is giving me good points. So yeah, he told me — if we would’ve lost a week ago, I’d be there 100 percent. Down the line, I hope to get the opportunity to put that jersey on. It’s a dream of mine.
Advertisement
I want to ask you about Des (McAleenan), who you’ve mentioned before as a major influence on you. Tragically, he died earlier this year. It’s unexpected, honestly, that this Irish goalkeeper coach would be the one to push you to embrace your style of play, which is distinctly Latin American. How big was he for you in your evolution as a player?
He was huge. When I started getting called up to the youth national teams for the U.S., I was really having trouble. I was at residency for a year, the goalkeeper coach at the time, he didn’t really understand me or my style of play. He was more just a polished goalkeeper, and didn’t respect my style of play. I was having doubts, I thought maybe that style would just never be appreciated here. Here comes Des, and he changes my life forever. He was my biggest mentor, the guy that I trusted my life with. He loved the position, he loved all aspects of goalkeeping. He was the one who put it into my head — try and be both. Try and be that flashy goalkeeper but still be that technical goalkeeper, as well. He lived in Mexico for a year, so I think he had a greater understanding of the style of play. We’d have these conversations about the Mexican keepers playing in Liga MX, and that’s when it clicked for me — he understands me, he understands why I love these types of goalkeepers. I’d gotten to the point where I’d felt like the U.S. had changed me a bit, changed my roots, when the reason I’d fallen in love with the position was because of those South American goalkeepers. I wasn’t about to forget that. I really had a special relationship with Des. It’s sad to see that he’s gone now but I know that he’s watching over me, and something in me knows that he’s watching me and he’s still here.
This notion of being a “villain” — how do you respond to that? That word, that concept. Is it a fair descriptor for you?
I don’t mind it, man. Like you said, I have that chip on my shoulder. I have that type of character. When I was “shushing” the Seattle fans, they deserved it. The whole game they were talking smack and all of that stuff. When I was shushing Seattle fans, I was also shutting the league up. The league didn’t believe in us, they didn’t even think we’d make the playoffs. It’s just who I am and, like I said, I think they deserved it.
There are coaches who’ve talked trash about you, too. I just went back and listened to Adrian Heath’s comments about you — he calls you a “kid that’s not that good.” That’s pretty nuts, no?
It is, for sure. Look at him now. He’s out of the playoffs and I’m still going. Everyone talks and has their opinion, and it’s just on you to believe in yourself and shut those people up. I hope he’s pissed right now. He deserves it, trying to tell me that I’m not good — yet we beat his team. He deserves it.
People also have taken to saying that RSL plays “negative soccer,” they obviously had a field day pointing at the zero shots (against Seattle), all of that. What’s the response been there?
The response was the game we had with Kansas City. What better way to respond than to outshoot Sporting KC at their home field and to outpossess them at their home field, like I said. The pressure is not on us. We don’t have any home games. The pressure is entirely on the other team. We love it. We’re all feeling really confident, we think we can win the cup.
What should we expect this weekend? Many people are picking Portland.
That stuff fuels us. We’ve had it all year. That’s what built that fire in us to believe in ourselves and keep pushing. We’re a team that has a lot of confidence right now, we just beat two top dogs in the league. I think everyone, with the way their mentality is in the locker room, we’re going to Portland and we’re beating them, as well. It’s OK. They can keep doubting us. We’ll keep shutting mouths up.