In The Divergent Series: Insurgent, hitting theaters March 20, Oscar-winner Kate Winslet returns as the villainous Jeanine Matthews. Picking up where the first adaptation of Veronica Roth’s hit young-adult series left off, Jeanine is hunting down Tris (Shailene Woodley) and Four (Theo James), two divergents — people who don’t fit perfectly into one of society’s five factions — who threaten her corrupt control of a dystopian Chicago. The 39-year-old actress spoke to TIME about playing a bad guy, the importance of young-adult fiction and which faction Rose from Titanic would choose.
TIME: You were drawn to the role of Jeanine because you had never been a villain before. What’s the best part about playing one? Kate Winslet: The novelty of that was definitely the most thrilling, really, but also playing a character who could be many versions of nasty — there is lot that is sinister about her. That, as an actor, provided me with a platform to have a lot of fun and try lots of different things. To have that level of power over all those individuals, that was just a really exciting, new thing for me to play around with. And I could be a part of something that is a pleasure for so many people to watch. So many people are in anticipation of its release. It’s lovely to be apart of something like that.
You’ve called Jeanine the female Hitler — that’s a pretty intense label. But you can see why! I watched Insurgent the other night, and I really sat there thinking to myself, “Oh my god, she is Hitler.” It is harsh, but it’s the truth. Her behavior is diabolical. It really is appalling. The only thing that saved me from disliking her as much as I did is that I know she never existed. Somehow that saved me. I was able to laugh. It’s what you have to do when you play somebody like that.
Is that different from when you played an actual Nazi in The Reader? It’s an interesting thing, playing a character who didn’t exist versus playing a character who potentially could have existed. It’s very easy for me to judge and have a strong opinion about a character who is fake and will never exist. I can easily say to you, “Jeanine is a completely despicable, disgusting woman, and if I met her, I would trample her to the ground and pull her eyes out.” I can say that to you. But when one plays a character that either exists or potentially could have, I find myself feeling incredibly protective of those characters. I’m sure if you looked hard, you’d never find me saying anything disparaging about [The Reader character] Hanna Schmitz, although of course this storyline she occupies is not a very nice one. That’s something new I learned through playing a real villain in Jeanine versus an accidental villain, I suppose, in playing Hanna.
See All the Best Actresses in Oscar History
1929: Janet Gaynor - Street Angel, Sunrise and 7th HeavenBob Thomas—Popperfoto/Getty Images1930: Mary Pickford - CoquetteEdwin Bower Hesser—John Kobal Foundation/Getty Images1931: Norma Shearer - The DivorceeGeorge Hurrell—John Kobal Foundation/Getty Images1932: Marie Dressler - Min and BillKeystone-France/Gamma-Keystone/Getty Images1933: Helen Hayes - The Sin of Madelon ClaudetGeneral Photographic Agency/Getty Images1934: Katharine Hepburn - Morning Glory
1968: Katharine Hepburn - Guess Who's Coming to Dinner
1969: Katharine Hepburn - The Lion in Winter
1982: Katharine Hepburn - On Golden PondAlfred Eisenstaedt—The LIFE Picture Collection/Getty Images1935: Claudette Colbert - It Happened One NightImagno/Getty Images1936: Bette Davis - Dangerous
1939: Bette Davis - JezebelKeystone-France/Gamma-Keystone/Getty Images1937: Luise Rainer - The Great Ziegfeld
1938: Luise Rainer - The Good EarthTed Allan—Hulton Archive/Getty Images1940: Vivien Leigh - Gone with the Wind
1952: Vivien Leigh - A Streetcar Named DesireGordon Anthony—Getty Images1941: Ginger Rogers - Kitty FoyleHulton Archive/Getty Images1942: Joan Fontaine - SuspicionJohn Kobal Foundation/Getty Images1943: Greer Garson - Mrs. MiniverPopperfoto/Getty Images1944: Jennifer Jones - The Song of BernadetteSilver Screen Collection/Getty Images1945: Ingrid Bergman - Gaslight
1957: Ingrid Bergman - AnastasiaApic/Getty Images1946: Joan Crawford - Mildred PierceSilver Screen Collection/Getty Images1947: Olivia de Havilland - To Each His Own
1950: Olivia de Havilland - The HeiressSilver Screen Collection/Getty Images1948: Loretta Young - The Farmer's DaughterColumbia Pictures/Getty Images1949: Jane Wyman - Johnny BelindaJack Albin—Hulton Archive/Getty Images1951: Judy Holliday - Born YesterdayGAB Archive/Redferns/Getty Images1953: Shirley Booth - Come Back, Little ShebaCamerique/Getty Images1954: Audrey Hepburn - Roman HolidayHulton Archive/Getty Images1955: Grace Kelly - The Country GirlSilver Screen Collection/Getty Images1956: Anna Magnani - The Rose TattooMondadori/Getty Images1958: Joanne Woodward - The Three Faces of EveSilver Screen Collection/Getty Images1959: Susan Hayward - I Want to Live!Silver Screen Collection/Getty Images1960: Simone Signoret - Room at the TopKeystone-France/Gamma-Keystone/Getty Images1961: Elizabeth Taylor - Butterfield 8
1967: Elizabeth Taylor - Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?Silver Screen Collection/Getty Images1962: Sophia Loren - Two WomenSilver Screen Collection/Getty Images1963: Anne Bancroft - The Miracle WorkerSilver Screen Collection/Getty Images1964: Patricia Neal - HudGene Kornman–Hulton Archive/Getty Images1965: Julie Andrews - Mary PoppinsSilver Screen Collection/Getty Images1966: Julie Christie - DarlingSilver Screen Collection/Getty Images1970: Maggie Smith - The Prime of Miss Jean BrodieTerry O'Neill—Hulton Archive/Getty Images1971: Glenda Jackson - Women in Love
1974: Glenda Jackson - A Touch of ClassGordon Film Productions/Getty Images1972: Jane Fonda - Klute
1979: Jane Fonda - Coming HomeSilver Screen Collection/Getty Images1973: Liza Minnelli - CabaretTerry O'Neill—Hulton Archive/Getty Images1975: Ellen Burstyn - Alice Doesn't Live Here AnymoreCynthia Macadams—The LIFE Images Collection/Getty Images1976: Louise Fletcher - One Flew Over the Cuckoo's NestSilver Screen Collection/Getty Images1977: Faye Dunaway - NetworkTerry O'Neill—Hulton Archive/Getty Images1978: Diane Keaton - Annie HallRon Galella—WireImage/Getty Images1980: Sally Field - Norma Rae
1985: Sally Field - Places in the HeartHarry Langdon—Getty Images1981: Sissy Spacek - Coal Miner's DaughterRon Galella—WireImage/Getty Images1983: Meryl Streep - Sophie's Choice
2012: Meryl Streep - The Iron LadyRon Galella—WireImage/Getty Images1984: Shirley MacLaine - Terms of EndearmentRon Galella—WireImage/Getty Images1986: Geraldine Page - The Trip to BountifulABC/Getty Images1987: Marlee Matlin - Children of a Lesser GodKevin Winter—DMI/The LIFE Picture Collection/Getty Images1988: Cher - MoonstruckEvan Agostini—Liaison/Getty Images1989: Jodie Foster - The Accused
1992: Jodie Foster - The Silence of the LambsThe LIFE Picture Collection/Getty Images1990: Jessica Tandy - Driving Miss DaisyRon Galella—WireImage/Getty Images1991: Kathy Bates - MiseryRon Galella—WireImage/Getty Images1993: Emma Thompson - Howards EndRon Galella—WireImage/Getty Images1994: Holly Hunter - The PianoRon Galella—WireImage/Getty Images1995: Jessica Lange - Blue SkyRon Galella—WireImage/Getty Images1996: Susan Sarandon - Dead Man WalkingRon Galella—WireImage/Getty Images1997: Frances McDormand - FargoRon Galella—WireImage/Getty Images1998: Helen Hunt - As Good as It GetsRon Galella—WireImage/Getty Images1999: Gwyneth Paltrow - Shakespeare in LoveVince Bucci—Getty Images2000: Hilary Swank - Boys Don't Cry
2005: Hilary Swank - Million Dollar BabyGetty Images2001: Julia Roberts - Erin BrockovichKevin Winter—Getty Images2002: Halle Berry - Monster's BallSean Gallup—Getty Images2003: Nicole Kidman - The HoursDimitrios Kambouris—WireImage/Getty Images2004: Charlize Theron - MonsterRobin Platzer—FilmMagic/Getty Images2006: Reese Witherspoon - Walk the LineJ. Vespa—WireImage/Getty Images2007: Helen Mirren - The QueenJ. Vespa—WireImage/Getty Images2008: Marion Cotillard - La Vie en RoseSteve Granitz—WireImage/Getty Images2009: Kate Winslet - The ReaderKevork Djansezian—Getty Images2010: Sandra Bullock - The Blind SideDan MacMedan—WireImage/Getty Images2011: Natalie Portman - Black SwanJohn Shearer—Getty Images2013: Jennifer Lawrence - Silver Linings PlaybookSteve Granitz—WireImage/Getty Images2014: Cate Blanchett - Blue JasmineJason Merritt—Getty Images2015: Julianne Moore- Still AliceAnthony Harvey—Getty Images2016: Brie Larson - RoomC Flanigan—Getty Images2017: Emma Stone - La La LandJason LaVeris—Getty Images2018: Frances McDormand - Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, MissouriCraig Sjodin—ABC/Getty Images2019: Olivia Colman - The FavouriteCraig Sjodin—ABC/Getty Images
In recent years, young-adult franchises have landed a surprising number of accomplished actors: you in Divergent, Philip Seymour Hoffman in The Hunger Games, your new Insurgent co-stars Octavia Spencer and Naomi Watts. How do you explain these movies’ appeal? I can’t speak for any of those other actors you mentioned, but for me, I’d say this is a great, quality piece of movie-making and screenwriting, and the novels themselves are spectacular to read. Both myself and Naomi have children, and when you’re a parent, watching something that their generation and their friends at school can enjoy as well is pretty thrilling. That definitely for me plays a big part in wanting to do something like this.
One can’t help but mention The Hunger Games in the same breath as a series like this one because there are so many comparisons one can draw because of the nature of these franchise pieces. But after the success of The Hunger Games and how entertaining that has been for my kids and their friends, it’s a really wonderful thing to be able to go provide them with more entertainment of that nature.
And I really did love these books. They’re very intelligent and cleverly written, very captivating for young readers. There’s a lot to be said for that. Harry Potter really harnessed the imagination of so many young-adult minds, and it’s the same with the Divergent series. As soon as the script came in and I read the first one, my children literally saw it on the kitchen table and said, “Oh my God, mom, wait a minute, that’s that book!” When you hear how much of a buzz there already is just because of how good the books are, that definitely makes you go, “Wow, gosh, I didn’t know anything about how exciting this is for young readers!” It’s not my readership, it’s not my age range, but to have something brought to your attention specifically by the 10-year-olds? That’s a big deal.
It’s a wonderful thing as an actor to be able to do that and to do something completely different. Since Titanic, I’ve been very fortunate to play diverse roles and worked with absolutely wonderful people, but the nature of the films I’ve been apart of have often been quirkier and smaller by choice. To be a part of something like this, it’s a whole new experience, and a very thrilling one.
See Hunger Games: Mockingjay Stars' Most Memorable Past Roles
Jennifer Lawrence is a household name now thanks to roles like Katniss Everdeen in the Hunger Games movies, but back in 2010 she was still a relative unknown when she made her breakout performance as Ree Dolly in Winter’s Bone.Lionsgate; Roadside AttractionsBefore he brought to life Peeta Mellark from the Hunger Games novels, he played Jesse Aarons from Bridge to Terabithia in the 2007 fantasy film by the same name.Lionsgate; Buena VistaLiam Hemsworth, aka the real life brother of Thor, plays Katniss’ love interest Gale Hawthorne in the Hunger Games movies and also played a runaway teen named Victor in the 2009 British thriller Triangle.
Lionsgate; Icon FilmWoody Harrelson spends his time in the Hunger Games mentoring Katniss as former District 12 victor Haymitch Abernathy, but back in the day he spent his time schooling others in basketball as Billy Hoyle in the 1992 comedy White Men Can’t Jump.Lionsgate; 20th Century FoxBefore she was dressing up victors in the Hunger Games movies as Effie Trinket, Elizabeth Banks was dressed up in scrubs as Dr. Kim Briggs in the long-running television show Scrubs.Lionsgate; NBCDonald Sutherland may rule Panem with an iron fist, but he showed a much gentler side as Mr. Bennet in the 2005 romance Pride & Prejudice.Lionsgate; Focus FeaturesJulianne Moore takes on a stark tone as the reserved and stoic President Alma Coin of District 13 in Mockingjay, but in 1998 she played the uninhibited avant-garde artist Maude in The Big Lebowski.Lionsgate; Gramercy PicturesThe late Philip Seymour Hoffman brings his considerable talent to the Hunger Games as the Head Gamemaker turned rebel Plutarch Heavensbee, but years prior, he portrayed the author Truman Capote in the 2005 biopic Capote, a role for which he would win an Oscar for Best Actor.Lionsgate; Sony Pictures ClassicsSam Claflin plays Finnick Odair, the charismatic victor from District 4, and was also William, Snow White’s childhood friend, in the 2012 fantasy film Snow White and the Huntsman.Lionsgate; UniversalBefore he was interviewing the Hunger Games victors about the minutiae of their lives as Caesar Flickerman, Stanley Tucci chased the latest in fashion trends as Nigel, the snarky art director of Runway magazine, in the 2006 comedy The Devil Wears Prada.Lionsgate; 20th Century FoxJeffrey Wright portrays the genius inventor Beetee in the Hunger Games and also played CIA operative Felix Leiter in the James Bond movies Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace.Lionsgate; MGMLong before he was shooting propaganda films in Mockingjay as Pollux, Elden Henson was shooting pucks back in the 90s as Fulton Reed in the Mighty Ducks trilogy.Lionsgate; Buena VistaAlthough Mahershala Ali has to fight the Capitol’s considerable forces as Commander Boggs in Mockingjay, human soldiers should prove much easier after having to face off against aliens in the 2010 sci-fi flick Predators.Lionsgate; 20th Century FoxNatalie Dormer joins the cast of the Hunger Games as Cressida, a talented propaganda director, in Mockingjay, however, most people will better know her as Margaery Tyrell from Game of Thrones.Lionsgate; HBO
You must be the coolest mom ever now. 100 percent. Seriously. They want me to get to school a little bit before pick-up time. They like it if I’m killing time in the playground.
You and Shailene Woodley don’t have as many fight scenes in this movie. Were you relieved, or do you miss the pretend combat? You know, I do actually wish there had been more fighting with this one, only because when we were shooting Divergent I was actually pregnant and didn’t have a huge amount of physical strength. There was a lot, to be honest with you, that the stunt double did because of my condition! So although I wasn’t entirely back in my pre-baby shape, it would have been nice to have thrown a few punches in Shai’s direction! But I do prefer hugging her to hitting her.
At least you no longer have to spend every scene hiding the baby bump with Jeanine’s futuristic iPad. You have no idea! That was one of the things I was excited about: We can wear the fantastic tight dresses that we had planned in the first one! We actually did completely redesign all of Jeanine’s wardrobe because I became pregnant. We had to re-costume me because the bump ended up getting rather large faster than we anticipated. It was fun to give her a slightly cooler, almost harsher look.
You’ve said before that what Shailene is experiencing now in her career is what you went through after Titanic. What advice do you give her? I felt I was able to have a protective wing around her through Divergent. I was a safety net from afar. She hasn’t particularly needed me for the second one now because she herself will admit she learned a great deal through the experience of Divergent and the press attention that came after that. I wish I could have truly prepared her properly, but of course you can’t really, until you’re in those shoes. She definitely had to experience that for herself.
The one thing I would say is for both Shai and [her co-star] Theo [James], it’s been harder for them than it was for me. The simple reason is social media is what it is. It literally is a dominating beast, and we didn’t have that back then. And when I say back then, do you have any idea how long ago it really was? I’m turning 40 this year! Leo [DiCaprio] turned 40 last year! It’s a long time ago. Now, with the Internet, and the way social media works, it’s all so much faster and so much more intense. For these guys, there is literally no escape.
The way I coped with it is just by standing on my own two feet, focusing on the work, reminding myself that I do this job because I love it and not reading anything. Ignoring all the hype. To a certain extent, that’s what Shai has been doing because that’s her way anyway. And I will say this: She walked into the shooting of Divergent a very experienced young actress already, a very good young actress already. She is very secure and comfortable with who she is no matter what anyone tries to throw at her. All I can do is hug her and cheer her along from the sidelines.
Do you ever think about which factions your previous characters would choose, like, say, Rose from Titanic? She would probably pick Erudite — yes, of course she would. What would Clementine in The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind do? She probably would have picked them all and dyed her hair a stripe of each faction: black on one side, white on one side, blue down the middle.
So you’re saying Clementine is divergent? You’ve opened up a whole can of worms now.
13 Sequels That Were Almost As Good As (Or Better Than) the Originals
The Godfather: Part IIThe Godfather Part II starred Al Pacino as mobster Michael Corleone and Robert De Niro as his father, Vito, in the 1974 Oscar-winning sequel to The Godfather.
ParamountToy Story 2 In Pixar's 1999 follow-up to Toy Story, Woody, a cowboy doll voiced by Tom Hanks, is stolen – and his ragtag crew of fellow toy friends vow to get him home safely.Pixar/DisneyThe Dark Knight In Christopher Nolan’s 2008 sequel to Batman Begins, Christian Bale returns as Batman, this time joined by Heath Ledger as the ultra-creepy villain known as The Joker.Warner Bros.Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey In the 1991 follow-up to Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, the titular slackers (played by Keanu Reeves and Alex Winter) return with a new and even more excellent adventure.
OrionTerminator 2: Judgment Day In the second, more elaborate installment of the Terminator action movie franchise, Arnold Schwarzenegger is back as the Terminator, who must take on a newer, more advanced cyborg.TristarAliens In James Cameron's sequel to the 1979 film Alien, Sigourney weaver returns as Lt. Ellen Ripley, who takes on even more extraterrestrials — this time, backed by a team of space marines.20th Century FoxStar Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back In the second installment of the Star Wars franchise, released in 1980, the Galactic Empire, led by Darth Vader, pursues Luke Skywalker and the rest of the Rebel Alliance.
Lucasfilm/DisneyViggo Mortensen as Aragorn in 'The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King'New Line CinemaD2: The Mighty Ducks The 1994 sequel to the original Mighty Ducks, the ragtag team of young hockey players – the Ducks – are reunited by Coach Gordon Bombay (Emilio Estevez.)DisneyBack to the Future Part III In 1990, the final installment of the Back to the Future trilogy brought Marty McFly (Michael J. Fox) back to the big screen for one last time-travelling adventure.UniversalSuperman II Christopher Reeve returns as Superman in this 1980 sequel, as he continues to battle villains and fall deeper in love with reporter Lois Lane.Warner Bros.Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan In the second Star Trek film, released in 1982, Admiral James T. Kirk (William Shatner) returns to take on his old nemesis Khan Noonien Singh.ParamountHome Alone 2: Lost in New York This 1992 sequel once again follows youngster Kevin McCallister (Macaulay Culkin) as he faces off against two criminals — but instead of his home in suburban Chicago, this time he's in the Big Apple.20th Century Fox